WEBVTT

00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:15.000
欢迎收听鸡同鸭讲播客,我是郑行之 Gigi。

00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.820
And I'm Jeanette Sakel, 柯珍.

00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:21.180
As regular listeners will have realised, we switched languages today.

00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:22.560
Just to try it out.

00:00:22.660 --> 00:00:25.500
So Gigi is going to speak Chinese and I'm going to speak English.

00:00:25.660 --> 00:00:26.619
Let's see how that works.

00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:27.019
Cool.

00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:28.180
Is it weird?

00:00:28.180 --> 00:00:31.820
有一点点怪怪的吧,但是其实还好。

00:00:31.820 --> 00:00:41.640
就首先是我不用再想着要换语言了,因为其实我在说话的时候基本上都是要想半天然后才说英语。

00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:49.220
所以我之前就会老是会卡，卡壳,这一次我应该不会太卡壳了。

00:00:49.220 --> 00:00:55.680
Yeah, the same, the same. For me it's so much easier to speak English, even though English is obviously not my native language.

00:00:55.680 --> 00:01:01.180
对,但是你教语言已经教很久了呀,而且你在英国待了很久。

00:01:01.180 --> 00:01:01.340
Yeah.

00:01:02.300 --> 00:01:13.780
其实我来英国工作那么一年,我感觉我英语的口语的确是比前一年进步了很多,因为要用很长时间的去用。

00:01:13.780 --> 00:01:22.840
的确就是无论是画画也好,做写程序也好,都是不用的话基本上都会生锈的,英语也是,对。

00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:27.179
Yeah, and I mean, I've done what second language learners have recommended.

00:01:27.320 --> 00:01:32.859
The best thing to do to learn another language, which is to have a partner who speaks that language.

00:01:32.859 --> 00:01:37.939
So to find a boyfriend or girlfriend, or in my case, even an ex-husband who speaks that language.

00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:43.360
I'm just worried. Don't make me laugh because I...

00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:49.859
不要让我笑了,因为我很担心我把我的口水弄到你的麦克风上面。

00:01:50.379 --> 00:01:54.739
No, it's okay. No problem. The microphones can be cleaned. It's okay.

00:01:54.819 --> 00:01:56.119
Okay, cool. Yeah.

00:01:56.539 --> 00:02:04.819
对,你看我现在都已经有点养成习惯,有时候就会转眼就会说一点点英语,这其实还挺奇怪的,对。

00:02:04.819 --> 00:02:07.599
Well, this type of code switching is really natural, isn't it?

00:02:07.859 --> 00:02:08.399
对,是的。

00:02:08.399 --> 00:02:09.339
Especially when you're in that situation.

00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:19.699
When somebody speaks another language, actually linguistically, because I'm a linguist, and linguistically it's sort of weird when one person speaks one language, the other person speaks another language.

00:02:20.079 --> 00:02:22.099
not to want to switch when you can.

00:02:22.619 --> 00:02:26.979
So having this division that we're having at the moment is actually quite strange.

00:02:27.299 --> 00:02:29.019
对,是的,是的,是的。

00:02:29.019 --> 00:02:33.019
So today we want to talk about something that you've read the other day, didn't you, Gigi?

00:02:33.099 --> 00:02:33.699
What was that?

00:02:34.219 --> 00:02:37.299
我已经忘了。我们到底要想讨论什么呢?

00:02:37.299 --> 00:02:40.959
Oh, apologies, apologies for asking you about this particular topic.

00:02:40.999 --> 00:02:41.439
Oh, apologies.

00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:49.659
哦,对,我们想讨论的就是,我们来了英国之后,我们会经常说sorry嘛。

00:02:49.939 --> 00:02:56.259
我刚刚就看了一篇文章就说,英国人每天要道歉八百次。

00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:59.639
我觉得应该是我看错标题了吧。

00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:06.319
实际上我一天下来也应该也道歉不了一百百次,这太多了吧。

00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:10.859
八百次,eight hundred times, it's possible, depends on the person.

00:03:10.859 --> 00:03:16.039
那经常我们会在什么时候会说sorry呢?

00:03:40.859 --> 00:03:44.439
每一个文化的确会有一点不太一样。

00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:50.059
就让我想起了我小时候在看日本动画的时候,

00:03:50.899 --> 00:03:57.839
那些动画实际上他们根据那个他道歉的程度实际上是有分的。

00:03:57.839 --> 00:04:01.099
比如说,ごめん、ごめんなさい。

00:04:01.099 --> 00:04:02.539
Something like that.

00:04:02.539 --> 00:04:08.259
还会有一种更加深入的一种,实际上这些都是非常浅的。

00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:13.439
所以我在想有时候当一个英国人跟你说sorry的时候,

00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:18.619
我在想他可能实际上心里面根本就没有跟你要道歉的意思。

00:04:18.619 --> 00:04:28.099
就稍微有一点点,但是实际上就可能就真是好吧,就这样就发生了,然后就过吧,就这样子有种感觉。

00:04:28.099 --> 00:04:33.819
It's sort of a cultural expectation to say sorry excessively even when you don't mean it.

00:04:34.099 --> 00:04:36.759
And if you don't do it, then you're seen as strange.

00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:52.839
对,你会觉得,那么如果一个英国人在道歉的时候,如果他是真诚地觉得他是犯错了,他应该肯定不会用sorry这个方式来去说,他可能会说sincere apology.

00:04:53.539 --> 00:05:01.159
It really depends on the situation, I mean, and on the formality, I've got a colleague who would always say sincere apologies in all cases.

00:05:01.159 --> 00:05:04.799
It depends how posh you are.

00:05:04.939 --> 00:05:06.919
It depends how old you are.

00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:09.399
It depends on a lot of different things.

00:05:10.099 --> 00:05:12.759
And obviously, quite often, the apologies are genuine.

00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:29.759
有时候也感觉这个语言这个多样化还挺心累的,每一次听到人家说sorry的时候,我心里面还要老想半天,他到底是真诚的道歉呢,还是假假的道歉呢,其实说实话有点累。

00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:49.119
So what I have noticed, which is really quite strange because obviously in Germany you don't say sorry quite so much.

00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:54.419
But because I've been in Britain for over 20 years and I've sort of internalized some of the British culture.

00:05:54.419 --> 00:05:57.339
I speak English much more than I speak German, for example.

00:05:57.719 --> 00:06:00.779
And I've become more British by being here.

00:06:01.059 --> 00:06:09.579
So when I go back to Germany and I walk around my old hometown and somebody bumps into me, I automatically say sorry in German.

00:06:09.719 --> 00:06:11.079
I would go, Entschuldigen Sie.

00:06:11.719 --> 00:06:14.399
That would be really natural to me.

00:06:14.799 --> 00:06:16.819
And German people think I'm crazy.

00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:19.319
They look at me, what's wrong with her?

00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:45.319
对,这让我想起来我以前高中的时候特别喜欢看一个,我有一个特别喜欢的作家呢,叫米兰昆德拉,然后呢,他曾经,他是捷克人,但是呢,他因为他写的一些东西就涉及到一些比较政治敏感的内容,所以呢,他后来呢,就作为难民,就搬到法国去了。

00:06:45.319 --> 00:07:14.959
然后呢，他就... 我就记忆特别深刻的就说：他觉得他自己现在定居在法国，他既不是捷克人，也不是法国人，他就变成是一个哪里都不属于的一个人。我觉得好像现在像我们这样子用着Chinglish 用着 English 来去聊那些内容，实际上我们既不是特别英国，也不是特别像我们原来的那个地方我们就变成是

00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:19.359
从某种程度上就变成一种世界人了。

00:07:19.359 --> 00:07:23.719
就接受了不同方面的文化教育,

00:07:23.719 --> 00:07:27.119
就从哪方面都有一点点hybridising。

00:07:27.119 --> 00:07:28.159
Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:30.739
I feel very much like that,

00:07:30.819 --> 00:07:33.199
because when I'm learning so much Chinese at the moment,

00:07:33.339 --> 00:07:35.279
and I'm really immersed, you know,

00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:36.719
前进。

00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:38.219
对,是的。

00:07:38.219 --> 00:07:39.639
Very, very immersed in Chinese,

00:07:39.739 --> 00:07:41.099
so I watch a lot of Chinese television,

00:07:41.299 --> 00:07:42.199
and speak a lot of Chinese,

00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:44.519
and I feel sometimes I'm sitting in between

00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:45.419
in the different cultures.

00:07:45.939 --> 00:07:47.219
Sometimes I feel I'm not,

00:07:47.799 --> 00:07:49.279
well, I'm, what am I?

00:07:49.619 --> 00:07:50.679
What is my identity?

00:07:50.679 --> 00:07:58.019
其实现在想来想去,其实我们这样子去逼着自己,我现在到底是哪里的人呢?

00:08:20.679 --> 00:08:31.899
然后当我们接受了这些文化的之后,我觉得从某种定义上,我觉得我自己现在挺好的。

00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:38.219
对,我不需要说我必须要将自己归类到哪一种,我就是我自己。

00:08:38.219 --> 00:08:43.259
我觉得这样子是一个很积极的一个这样的事情。

00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:50.259
我们不需要规定规划,就是说这个就是属于中国的文化,这个就属于英国的文化。

00:08:50.259 --> 00:09:01.259
其实在我们无论是语言学,还有我们包括我们整个人之中,这种文化交融,cultural hybridisation这种现象也是会经常发生的。

00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:08.259
因为中国本身就是56个民族,然后就是各种各样的文化融杂在一起。

00:09:09.479 --> 00:09:17.259
所以其实没有说是这些必须就是中国的文化,这些是满族的,或者是...我们就是一个家庭而已。

00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:25.019
Yeah, and in a way, so within a country, you have that sort of hybridisation, but also across.

00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:39.239
And in today's world where people travel and people go to other places, and we've got students coming to the UK and we're going elsewhere, it's automatic, it's natural that things mix a little bit and we're learning from each other.

00:09:39.239 --> 00:09:49.279
And in a way, I feel personally by learning another language, by learning Chinese, for example, I learn so much more about the culture that was really strange to me at first.

00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:52.039
And then you realise, actually, we're all people, right?

00:09:52.119 --> 00:09:53.819
We have the same desires.

00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:55.279
We have the same ideas.

00:09:55.539 --> 00:09:58.739
We all have families or our lives.

00:09:58.859 --> 00:10:00.339
We have our personal interests.

00:10:00.659 --> 00:10:06.519
And that is also really interesting, how that then influences your thought.

00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:26.519
对,就是说尤其是当我在2019年到2021年在英国留学期间的话,其实我第一篇写的那个所谓的论文吧,就是是关于这个cultural hybridisation的。

00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:46.139
对,其实有很多中国留学生来到英国留学之后,我觉得有一个很难的地方,就是说感觉好像有一层隐藏,就是说invisible wall,就是说有一个隐形的一个墙。

00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:49.259
我们好像是有种边缘感,

00:10:49.419 --> 00:10:54.699
就是说跟这个英国的主流文化之间实际上是有差别,

00:10:54.939 --> 00:10:55.939
有一定差别,

00:10:56.079 --> 00:10:57.079
我们并不知道,

00:10:58.019 --> 00:11:00.119
除了这些The Big Ben,

00:11:00.719 --> 00:11:02.019
The London Eye之外,

00:11:02.139 --> 00:11:07.119
其实我们对这个英国的文化本身就没有这么多认识。

00:11:07.119 --> 00:11:11.879
I heard a podcast of someone talking about England,

00:11:12.299 --> 00:11:14.939
and they said that they wanted to come to the UK,

00:11:15.079 --> 00:11:15.599
They were Chinese.

00:11:15.739 --> 00:11:19.259
They wanted to come to the UK and study here.

00:11:19.379 --> 00:11:21.379
And they already had quite a good impression of the UK

00:11:21.379 --> 00:11:23.579
because they had watched Downtown Abbey,

00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:25.459
which is a historical drama.

00:11:25.699 --> 00:11:28.639
So it's like me watching a historical drama,

00:11:29.379 --> 00:11:31.639
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon,

00:11:31.839 --> 00:11:33.539
and then go, I know China.

00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:35.379
Yes, in some degree, yes.

00:11:35.379 --> 00:11:47.559
从某一种程度上的确是,但是当真的我们生活在这个环境里面的话,实际上那种边缘感还是很强的。

00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:58.559
对,有时候就是会感觉吧,反而在我们在网络中,我们在电影中去了解这个英国社会,我们反而会觉得很亲近。

00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:05.599
但是真正当我们到了这个环境之后,我们反而还觉得,哦,这天哪,我怎么样。

00:12:05.599 --> 00:12:13.099
所以我觉得会有很多的中国留学生来到这里之后,这种感觉突然间就加强了。

00:12:13.099 --> 00:12:18.299
然后就觉得,哦,天哪,我把我自己放在一个这么陌生的一个环境里面,

00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:24.799
我觉得怎么去适应这个环境实际上是一个非常难的过程。

00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:35.439
But isn't it, it goes both ways because if you've watched things, if you've watched series and sort of engaged with the culture, in a way, much of it is also familiar.

00:12:35.579 --> 00:12:39.099
So you might recognise the buildings because you've watched a series from that town.

00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.059
Like Bristol, for example, is in a lot of television series.

00:12:42.259 --> 00:12:42.439
Yes.

00:12:43.079 --> 00:12:43.619
So our students.

00:12:43.619 --> 00:12:44.339
What's so best about Skins?

00:12:44.719 --> 00:12:46.639
Yeah, and so many others.

00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.899
They're currently filming Young Sherlock, I think.

00:12:50.199 --> 00:12:50.679
Young Sherlock?

00:12:50.819 --> 00:12:51.359
Yes, in town.

00:12:51.359 --> 00:12:51.939
Oh, in here?

00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:52.519
Yeah, in town.

00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:53.799
Where, where, where? That's cool.

00:12:53.939 --> 00:12:56.039
Just in town, in the town centre.

00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:59.279
So my students were there last week and they said, oh, they came across it.

00:12:59.399 --> 00:12:59.539
Yes.

00:13:00.139 --> 00:13:05.099
And it's very sort of very famous, very famous series and so on are being filmed here in films.

00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:10.139
And so, yeah, students coming here, they might know, oh, I've seen this building.

00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:11.439
I'm quite familiar with this.

00:13:11.439 --> 00:13:15.839
But then on the other hand, there's this sort of, yeah, well, the invisible wall you mentioned.

00:13:15.999 --> 00:13:22.139
There's this sort of this cultural knowledge that you can't really get through reading a book, through watching a movie, etc.

00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.539
but rather when you're in the country, you sort of develop, don't you?

00:13:25.939 --> 00:13:27.639
对,是的。

00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:31.619
但是我觉得我们在留学的过程之中吧,

00:13:31.739 --> 00:13:35.599
其实最核心的我们花这么多精力,

00:13:35.719 --> 00:13:37.919
花这么多金钱来到这里,

00:13:38.359 --> 00:13:42.339
其实这个才是我们真正要学习的最核心的部分。

00:13:42.339 --> 00:13:50.099
怎么在一个陌生的环境里面去快速地去适应这些改变。

00:13:50.099 --> 00:13:51.399
Yeah, and it's so important.

00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:51.679
Yeah.

00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:25.099
工作还有生活当中其实都是一个很有效的。

00:14:25.099 --> 00:14:27.639
怎么跟外国人打交道。

00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:32.579
其实真的当你打破了这个隐形的墙之后,

00:14:32.659 --> 00:14:35.439
其实你会发现其实大家想的都是一样。

00:14:35.439 --> 00:14:36.279
Indeed, yeah.

00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:39.619
对,都是一大堆思想龌龊。

00:14:39.619 --> 00:14:42.699
都是一大堆思想龌龊,

00:14:42.859 --> 00:14:46.679
就是想着自己怎么过好自己生活的一些人。

00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:47.099
Yeah, exactly.

00:14:47.099 --> 00:14:49.519
其实这个大家都差不多的,对。

00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.459
也有思想很纯洁的人了。

00:14:52.459 --> 00:14:57.599
但是大家都其实都是在追求着共同的幸福。

00:14:57.599 --> 00:15:00.959
Yeah, and I think it's this wanting to interact with others as well

00:15:00.959 --> 00:15:03.919
and being open to other ideas or speaking with other people

00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:05.979
that really helps you in your thinking

00:15:05.979 --> 00:15:08.599
and really helps you in developing your own ideas

00:15:08.599 --> 00:15:10.579
and an idea of your own identity as well.

00:15:10.939 --> 00:15:13.719
I've never reflected that much on what it means to be German.

00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:15.819
Or well, I didn't used to.

00:15:15.819 --> 00:15:18.059
And then I moved abroad and I realised that,

00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:22.039
oh, this is actually quite a cultural, a German thing.

00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.059
Yeah, cultural, cultural trade I wasn't even aware of.

00:15:25.439 --> 00:15:28.399
And that in itself is also quite interesting, isn't it?

00:15:28.719 --> 00:15:30.899
But then talking to people who want to talk to you.

00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:33.399
有很多很有意思的文章就是說,

00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.899
中国留学生来到英国之后反而变得更爱国了。

00:15:38.819 --> 00:15:43.899
对,所以就是一个很有意思的这样的一些情况吧。

00:15:44.719 --> 00:15:46.179
Indeed, indeed.

00:15:46.599 --> 00:15:50.979
And then also realize what you like about your home country,

00:15:51.099 --> 00:15:52.539
what you like about other countries,

00:15:53.319 --> 00:15:56.139
and bring it together and also have that connection.

00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:57.499
对,是的。

00:15:57.499 --> 00:16:01.199
Because it's, yeah, you love China and you go back to China,

00:16:01.319 --> 00:16:04.059
but you still have that connection and that understanding

00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:06.179
of how things work elsewhere.

00:16:06.699 --> 00:16:08.319
And I think the more we can do that, the better.

00:16:08.459 --> 00:16:10.519
就像我现在在跟你聊天一样嘛。

00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:11.199
Absolutely.

00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.079
And isn't it nice to speak the other way around?

00:16:14.259 --> 00:16:16.219
Like, I'm still confused, not speaking Chinese,

00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:20.319
but I want to speak Chinese, but I think this is, yeah.

00:16:20.439 --> 00:16:24.059
对,这种保持好奇心的还是很有必要的,

00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:27.719
对这个世界保持好奇心。

00:16:27.719 --> 00:16:29.039
如果没有好奇心的话,

00:16:29.239 --> 00:16:33.199
其实感觉有点我们活着的意义都有点没有了,对吧?

00:16:33.319 --> 00:16:33.959
Yeah, exactly.

00:16:34.839 --> 00:16:35.119
Cool.

00:16:35.119 --> 00:16:57.119
每次我打开手机在那里翻阅那些最新的新闻的时候,每一次看那些新闻我都是会觉得好糟心哦,就会觉得怎么会有这么多这么不幸的事情在这个世界上发生。

00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:08.119
这不能够继续这样下去。

00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:12.359
其实有很多时候,他们之所以会产生这样的争执,

00:17:12.859 --> 00:17:18.819
就是因为有很多交流上没有做好充分的交流,

00:17:18.939 --> 00:17:21.199
所以才会导致这些争执。

00:17:21.199 --> 00:17:28.539
所以我觉得讨论那些比较很麻烦的议题,

00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.119
很麻烦的主题其实也是一个很重要的事情。

00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:38.559
我们应该以更开放的态度来去讨论那些事情。

00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:44.139
But how do you speak with friends or with strangers in such a way that you don't offend?

00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.639
How can you choose those subjects, those topics?

00:17:46.639 --> 00:17:52.579
我相信在跟无论德国人还是英国人还是中国人在交流的时候,

00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:57.439
其实每一个人心里面的话都是会有那么一点点关键词,

00:17:57.939 --> 00:18:04.059
是希望我们在交流的过程之中是不希望被他人所提及的。

00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:11.999
但是有时候那个界限又很难去界定。

00:18:11.999 --> 00:18:19.579
如果我之前从来没接触过德国人,从来没接触过英国人,不了解他们的历史,

00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:28.299
实际上我们是很难就是说去真的就是说怎么才算是那个界定。

00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:33.579
然后在了解这个事情的时候,我突然间就想到一些很有趣的一个概念。

00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:40.299
有些人就是说无知者无罪,如果我不知道这个事情的话,我就是无罪的。

00:18:41.219 --> 00:18:43.059
But is it? Is it really?

00:18:43.659 --> 00:18:47.759
对,但是从某一种角度来说的话,又很有意思的就是说在佛教里面,

00:18:48.259 --> 00:19:10.259
因为我之前交的那个男朋友,他就说,实际上他如果在佛教里面的话,他有三种罪嘛,三种毒,three poison,然后呢就说贪,嗔,痴,在吃里面的话呢就说傻,就说如果你无知的话实际上也是一种罪来的。

00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:15.259
所以就是说,这其实这两种之间的话,我觉得还挺有意思的。

00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:21.539
到底我不知道别人的这个困难的话,到底是有罪还是无罪?

00:19:22.499 --> 00:19:25.179
其实这个还说实话也挺难界定的。

00:19:25.179 --> 00:19:29.619
Yeah, and I think it really depends if you're seeking that knowledge,

00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:33.479
or if you're deliberately not seeking the knowledge.

00:19:33.639 --> 00:19:36.559
So if you know there are other cultures out there,

00:19:36.639 --> 00:19:39.919
and other ways of interacting, and other ways of doing things,

00:19:39.919 --> 00:19:43.459
and you ignore that and then just step in it,

00:19:43.859 --> 00:19:45.619
then I guess it's your fault, isn't it?

00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.439
But if you try to seek that knowledge and you get it wrong,

00:19:48.739 --> 00:19:50.819
like we discussed in the previous episode

00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:52.819
where we discussed he, she, and they,

00:19:52.959 --> 00:19:54.919
and if you get they wrong, you know,

00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:56.919
but you're trying, you're trying your best,

00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:58.199
but you're getting it wrong,

00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:01.579
then that's not the end of it.

00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:03.459
And we also, I guess we discussed this

00:20:03.459 --> 00:20:05.959
with respect to language learning, didn't we?

00:20:06.219 --> 00:20:07.799
Because when we speak,

00:20:07.939 --> 00:20:09.619
when I speak Chinese, you speak English,

00:20:09.679 --> 00:20:10.719
We do get things wrong.

00:20:11.019 --> 00:20:11.619
是的。

00:20:11.619 --> 00:20:15.439
And that is obviously very embarrassing, or can be very embarrassing.

00:20:15.819 --> 00:20:17.999
But then, you know, you just have to get over that.

00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:19.559
But again, we're trying, right?

00:20:19.659 --> 00:20:20.019
对。

00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:21.219
And we get things wrong.

00:20:21.219 --> 00:20:44.479
对,所以其实如果总结起来的话,我们可不可以这样说,就是说,如果我们在跟外国人在交流的时候,其实最核心是要保留,保持两种态度,一个就是说要对他人保持一种好奇心,第二个就是说我们这边需要去更加接受吧,

00:20:44.479 --> 00:20:48.479
More inclusive... right?

00:20:48.479 --> 00:20:52.959
inclusive yes yeah and have that curiosity towards the other person yeah

00:21:18.479 --> 00:21:24.559
实际上,对,其实有很多那些互相的不理解都是差不多的吧。

00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.779
就像我们刚才说的一样,其实大家都差不多。

00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:30.919
都是追求着自己的快乐。

00:21:30.919 --> 00:21:33.699
And it's quite interesting because if you have people who say,

00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:38.839
oh, I don't like foreigners or, you know, I don't like Germans or something like that.

00:21:38.919 --> 00:21:40.899
And then they have a friend who is German.

00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:41.919
对,对,对。

00:21:41.919 --> 00:21:43.059
Yeah, but not him.

00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:44.379
对,对。

00:21:44.379 --> 00:21:47.919
She's okay, but all the others that I don't know.

00:21:47.919 --> 00:22:07.919
对,所以就是说实际上不应该以这个,其实就是说到最后其实一种米养百种人,其实并不是说每一个中国人都是长得同一个性格,中国人里面也有好人,也有坏人。

00:22:07.919 --> 00:22:08.899
但英国也一样。

00:22:08.899 --> 00:22:09.919
对,是的,是的。

00:22:09.919 --> 00:22:11.039
各种各样。

00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:16.859
对,所以就是说实际上我们不应该就是说将某一个国籍,

00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:22.399
就将那个性格的那些东西全部就归向到那些,

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.659
只要是中国人就肯定会做这个事情,

00:22:26.219 --> 00:22:32.859
这个的话我觉得其实是不利于大家来进行这个更有利的交流的。

00:22:33.619 --> 00:22:35.859
我所采取的态度呢就是说开玩笑。

00:22:36.479 --> 00:22:38.179
Ah, that's a good one, yeah.

00:22:38.399 --> 00:22:38.899
对。

00:22:38.899 --> 00:22:39.879
How would you do that then?

00:22:39.879 --> 00:23:02.879
对,在跟我跟,又在说我的,我在跟前男友在相处的时候呢,他就说了一个非常深刻的话,joke are half-meant,反正是开玩笑的话,都是,一般的,不是一般的,对,都是会有,他实际上就是意味着,他实际上是认真在说这个事情的。

00:23:09.879 --> 00:23:24.139
突然间有一个想法,就是说,实际上就是说,如果你的实话,你觉得你的实话,你的truth,what you are telling is truth, is going to cure the disease.

00:23:39.879 --> 00:23:42.379
那个苦的东西也吞下去了。

00:23:42.379 --> 00:23:45.919
我觉得这就是很多那些喜剧人,

00:23:45.999 --> 00:23:47.859
Comedian在做的事情。

00:23:47.859 --> 00:23:50.199
There's an expression in English as well,

00:23:50.259 --> 00:23:51.519
which is not quite as polite.

00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:52.459
Do you know that one?

00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:53.239
What is that?

00:23:53.719 --> 00:23:54.799
The shit sandwich.

00:23:55.939 --> 00:23:57.439
You have a piece of bread,

00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:58.879
and you have the rubbish in the middle,

00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:00.519
and then you have another piece of bread.

00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:02.619
但是如果我可以,

00:24:02.779 --> 00:24:05.639
如果屎屎可以治疗我的病的话,

00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:08.519
那我还是会选择吃下去的。

00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:20.219
但是,对,shit的话,反正我现在也full of shit,所以就直接把我在sandwich里面吧,然后你是不是是你的选择吗?

00:24:39.059 --> 00:24:45.419
开玩笑,不要将自己当作一回事,就经常拿自己开玩笑。

00:24:45.419 --> 00:24:48.518
And that makes life a bit more relaxing as well, right?

00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:56.679
Be relaxed about things, joke about things, be obviously, you know, quite formal or earnest when you need to,

00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:01.599
but then on the other hand, just be yourself and not worry too much.

00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:05.699
And if you do offend people, you can always do it the English way and say sorry.

00:25:05.699 --> 00:25:12.138
对,但是还是要不能够说sorry,要用更加真诚的方式说sorry,对吧?

00:25:12.979 --> 00:25:14.119
Terribly sorry!

00:25:18.179 --> 00:25:22.619
So those were some interesting topics.

00:25:23.199 --> 00:25:33.539
I think this whole idea of cultural hybridization and what happens between different cultures, different languages and so on, we can explore much further, right?

00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:35.738
I think that is really lovely.

00:25:35.959 --> 00:25:36.919
It's such a lovely topic.

00:25:36.919 --> 00:25:45.919
对,我觉得真的,我觉得我们播客要做这个就是说要去不断的去增强这种交流吧。

00:26:06.919 --> 00:26:09.599
外国做了什么坏事,老是会这样子,

00:26:09.658 --> 00:26:12.479
我觉得应该要用一些更加积极的态度,

00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:16.039
更加积极的方式来去加强这种交流吧,

00:26:16.158 --> 00:26:18.238
并不是,大家都挺好的,

00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.079
对,并不是说他就是坏的,

00:26:21.158 --> 00:26:21.959
他就没有这样,

00:26:22.158 --> 00:26:25.059
没有这样说一个人好就好到底,

00:26:25.258 --> 00:26:26.579
没有一个人坏就坏到底,

00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:27.898
By adventure, by,

00:26:27.939 --> 00:26:28.559
对,是的,

00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:34.679
对,我们并不是活在一个白雪公主的一个格林童话里面,

00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:39.919
每一个人都是只是为了争取自己的幸福而已。

00:26:39.919 --> 00:26:44.579
无论你是中国人,德国人还是英国人,实际上我们都是一样的。

00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:44.919
Exactly.

00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:46.699
Right.

00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:50.799
And on that note, we shall finish the podcast.

00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:55.819
But before we go, dear listeners, if you have any interesting things to share,

00:26:55.819 --> 00:27:01.419
and if you would like us to discuss specific topics, you are very welcome to leave us a message.

00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:02.339
对。

00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:06.739
我们这边也会经常会看我们的chickentoducktalk.com的那个网站,

00:27:07.379 --> 00:27:09.778
会看一下你们这边有没有给我们留言,

00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:11.859
如果你有一些感兴趣的内容的话,

00:27:12.278 --> 00:27:13.459
也可以加入到我们,

00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:15.679
我们也可以邀请你来做嘉宾,

00:27:15.819 --> 00:27:18.599
一起来去讨论一下你的这个留学生活,

00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.039
也可以说英语,

00:27:21.679 --> 00:27:22.819
也可以说中文,

00:27:23.239 --> 00:27:24.619
你也可以说猫语也没问题,

00:27:24.619 --> 00:27:27.579
你可以邀请冬天过来做播客,

00:27:27.939 --> 00:27:31.699
好,那下次见,